Dr. Lara Hochman joins the MedEdWell Podcast and shares about the physician job search process. She also shares her journey in medicine and how she came to become the medical matchmaker, finding a great fit between physicians and private practices looking for top talent.

During this episode you will learn about;

[0:00] How to get your work done. FREE PDF DOWNLOAD

[1:44] How Dr. Hochman got where she is now on medicine

[3:49] Where are you going? What to look for?

[7:49] Time off and how are things structured?

[11:41] Must haves in job application

[15:59] How to use your cover letter to stand out.

[20:27] The most important thing to look for

[23:43] Non-competes and negotiating

[26:42] Intellectual property clauses

[31:12] Dr. Hochman’s vision for the future of medicine.

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Does charting in medicine seem overwhelming at times? The tens or hundreds of charts that you still have to finish and sign…it’s exhausting right?

Charting Mastery™ is a 6-week- long group coaching program, led by Dr. Ryan Stegink, where physicians like you, will get equipped with the skills and approach to finish charting at work and get home sooner for what matters most to you.

The first cohort launches in early November 2022. You can get on the waitlist and be one of the first to hear when you can become a founding member by going to…

https://www.chartingmastery.net

There will be CME available through reflections on the material, powered by CMEfy.

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To connect with Dr. Hochman and hear more about possible job opportunities, visit www.happydayhealth.co (not .com)

Above are the episode show notes and below is the transcript via www.otter.ai.com. Some episode transcripts have been edited more than others, but they are up in the meantime to help those who would rather read and for searchability on the web. Extensive editing has not been prioritized as I seek to both produce regular content and maintain my own wellness. See the website disclaimer if you have questions, since this is all for your education and entertainment only. Enjoy!

Transcript

Dr. Ryan Stegink 0:00
Do you love being a doctor? But all the charting and paperwork, all of those workflow things? Do they stress you out? You’re not alone. I want you to get my free PDF guide with 10 steps to getting your work done faster so you can get home for what matters most. You can get your free guide at mededwell.com/efficiency Guide. Get yours today. Welcome to the MedEdWell podcast, empowering physicians to get work done at work, then be able to reflect and choose what is important for both their life and medical practice. I’m your host, Dr. Ryan Stegink. general pediatrician, life coach for physicians. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the MedEdWell podcast where physicians come to be encouraged and equipped to take the next step in their own wellness journey. Thank you so much for subscribing and for sharing these episodes and for engaging with these concepts. Today I’m excited to interview Dr. Laura Hochman. Dr. Hochman is a family medicine physician and advocate for fellow physicians wellbeing amidst rising burnout and dissatisfaction. Her own experiences led her to discover the ways physicians lost autonomy, and how to reclaim their focus on helping patients. She founded Happy Day Health, a boutique physician matchmaking agency to match doctors with well run physician owned private practices where they can avoid burnout, and enjoy practicing medicine again. Dr. Hochman, welcome to the show.

Dr. Laura Hochman 1:44
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 1:47
Thanks for being here. So tell me a little bit more about your journey to medicine, and how you’ve navigated some transitions to get where you are now.

Dr. Laura Hochman 1:56
It’s been a really interesting road. So growing up, you know, I was one of those people who grew up knowing I wanted to be a doctor. And I think, you know, there’s a lot of good things about that. But I had blinkers on. So you know, nothing else even penetrated my mind. So I had thought, you know, I was like, Oh, maybe I should look into this or that. And it always came down to but why? If I could be a doctor, why would I be anything else? So, you know, I almost wish that I had at least looked at other things. But I like where I am today. And I don’t regret it. However, if I could go back in time, or maybe advise my kids on something I would probably say, you know, maybe you should like actually explore that sort of thing. But yeah, so I went to medical school, residency, just kind of the usual path, college med school residency, and then ended up doing a little bit of locums for the first year out of residency while my husband was completing his residency, which was so much fun. And then this amazing job fell into my lap. So I took a private practice job, which was then bought by hospital system. So I ended up not signing that contract for various reasons. And in no backup plan, I just knew like I could not be a part of this contract. So left there took a few months off, which was wonderful. And then joined another practice, which I absolutely loved and actually restored my my optimism in the future of medicine. And so that’s the very brief version of when to realize that medicine can be fun again, and, and I, you know, I mean, I’ve lived through burnouts, I’ve seen my friends and colleagues, you know, all go through it and seen what’s been happening with all of us. So decided to be part of the solution.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 3:49
That’s really helpful and just insightful to say, just that intentionality of looking at, okay, where, where are you? Where are you going? Where do you want to go?

Dr. Laura Hochman 4:00
Yeah, that’s so important. You know, there’s a lot of us that are, and I see this often where a lot of physicians are burned out, and then they leave, which is very difficult to do, but they take that huge step, but then they fall right back into what they were leaving. So you know that intentionality is so important. In us taking back medicine, really, I mean, we have to look at what it is that we’re leaving and then not repeat it.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 4:29
So you found a practice that you liked, and has been a good fit for you. How did you then come to start happy day health?

Dr. Laura Hochman 4:39
So in this practice, I hired a lot of people. And, you know, some are physicians, some are other people. So it was a lot of just learning how to hire and each physician job that I hired for. It was very difficult to turn doctors away. I was hearing this same thing over and over again of I just feel like I’m another cog in the wheel, I’m just a number, I don’t get to make any decisions. I don’t have any say over anything. And, you know, it’s such a huge problem. And it was like, I could put this on repeat. And every doctor was saying the same thing. And at the same time, all the private practice owners I knew, and you know, in all the Facebook groups that were all in, they were all saying things like, I can’t find a doctor to join our practice, I can’t compete with the big hospital systems. And so looking at those two things together, it was almost like, you know, like that light bulb moment, but over a year or so, I’ve Oh, my goodness, like somebody has to help, help. Like, there’s all these practices that can find doctors and all these doctors that are desperate to find a place to work, where there’ll be treated well. But they’re not finding each other. So we just need to find somewhere for them to come together. Like practices.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 5:58
Yeah, and the thought of it that way. But it’s like you’re bringing those two groups together and saying, How can we make this a good match? And so there you go.

Dr. Laura Hochman 6:09
Exactly.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 6:10
So as you’ve been both on the hiring side, and looked for private practice jobs yourself, what would you say to either someone as an attending who’s looking for a new job? Or a resident or fellow who’s looking for their first job out of training? What are some of the most important things to look for? In a job?

Dr. Laura Hochman 6:29
Yeah, so everyone’s looking for something a little bit different. So I would say, really think about what your priorities are. And go for that, what a lot of I would say probably the most common mistake people make is looking at salary only. Salary is important. We come out with hundreds of 1000s in, in student loan debt. But there’s a lot more to life than salary. So I would say, you know, just be very mindful when you’re making that choice. What’s important to you? What’s the culture of the practice that you’re working in? And how much autonomy Do you have? Like, you absolutely want to speak with other doctors that are in that practice? And ask them you know, about their schedule? Or are they allowed to fire patients? Or maybe dangerous? Are they? Do they spend three hours every evening charting? Do they? What kind of control do they have over the quality of care? Or is it just a numbers game?

Dr. Ryan Stegink 7:29
Those are really helpful things. And I found that in my own practice, like having solid colleagues, both who can back you up who can cover for you that offers that flexibility? And to be able to find out, do you have physician leadership? What kind of input and other benefits? How much can you take your PTO? Or just unpaid time? And how is how are things structured? So I think those are really helpful things to prioritize.

Dr. Laura Hochman 8:02
Yeah, how are you? How are you supported as a human being

Dr. Ryan Stegink 8:05
so true, because it’s so easy when it’s, we talk about quality improvement, and if we can measure it, then we can improve it. But then it sometimes feels like a hamster wheel.

Dr. Laura Hochman 8:18
Exactly.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 8:19
So if residents or others are thinking about making a change, how much in advance should they be doing that? That might be different for trainees versus attendings. But how could you speak to that?

Dr. Laura Hochman 8:35
Yeah, so it all depends on what you’re going into. The the thing to know is that a typically takes about three or four months to get credentialed with insurance companies. So if you’re going into a practice, where you’ll be taking insurance, so that would be private practice or hospital employment, you typically need at least three months. If you’re going into something where you don’t take insurance, then you don’t need that lead time, of course, unless you need a license, so. So I would say the things to take into account are how long it takes to get a license in that state, and how long it takes to credential with insurance. And can you take a week off? Do you have to start work the Monday after you graduated residency? Or can you take a week or a month or you know, I took six weeks. So you know, really remember, like, this may be one of the very few times in your life that you get to just be off, like just take that time. So, you know, some people start looking at as early as, oh, goodness, August, September of the year before they graduate residency, which is fine. You there’s a little bit of hiccups there because sometimes the practices want to hire right away. Usually, the practices that I work with are willing to wait for the right person because, you know, they want the right person. They don’t want the first person but typically, I would say I Mmm three or four months before you hope to start, at least

Dr. Ryan Stegink 10:04
it’s helpful. Yeah, I started looking as a pediatrics resident in primary care probably was one of those August September, but I was it was also some of those other constraining factors I was, had just gotten married, and my wife was a nurse at an academic hospital for as a pediatric nurse. So that kind of constrained what our parameters were when we were looking. So it all depends on

Dr. Laura Hochman 10:36
Yeah, the nice thing about the nice thing about starting early as you have more options, if you wait till the last minute, you just have to take what you can get, which I’m you don’t have to, but you have you feel that pressure, versus, you know, when I speak with doctors, some of them will call me and say, I’m not happy where I am, I’m willing to wait for the right thing as long as that takes. And then we just lay in wait, and we can like, wait until a perfect opportunity comes up. And that may be a month, it could be a week, it could be six months. You know, I just emailed someone today about exactly what she wanted. But she and I spoke back in April. So it’s now October. So giving yourself that time, just gives you a lot more flexibility.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 11:19
So if people are saying, Where Where do I find out about more of these opportunities that are out there, whether it’s happy day health or other local specialties? Or is it just word of mouth networking? How would you encourage someone to go about starting the search when you’re either currently working or in training? can be overwhelming?

Dr. Laura Hochman 11:43
Yeah, there’s, that’s, that’s an interesting question that I’ve pondered. For someone who doesn’t know me. You know, of course, you know, I help doctors find practices. So anyone is always welcome to contact me. And that’s what I do. It’s, I love it, and I don’t charge people to help them find a practice. The interesting thing that I’ve learned since doing that is that not every job is posted anywhere. So you know, the options are, you can look at the job posting websites, there’s so many of them that you have to kind of be part of them all. If you really want to see all of your options. The big hospitals typically have their own in house recruiters, not always, but usually, so that’s pretty straightforward. You just go to the hospital website and contact the recruiters or you know, whatever it is, and you may not hear back their systems may not put your resume through to the recruiters. So if you don’t hear back, give them a call Be persistent. So hospitals are easy. The other practices which may be an FQHC, may be a private practice, all of those they don’t typically post and they recruiters don’t typically post. So you know, that’s something that I found very interesting that I’ve learned since doing this. So so, you know, what I do is I network with, I have about 200 recruiters that I network with and where I can see their job posts. So that’s been super helpful. But it’s tough. Like if you know exactly what city you want to be in the options are, either contact me contact the hospital system, if you want to be hospital employed, contact, the practices, word of mouth, all of that stuff. So, you know, it’s tough, I would look at the job boards look at Indeed, which you know, is not Doctor specific, but tends to have some really nice stuff on there. So indeed, Job Match, practice, match. Practice link, I believe is one of them. There’s there’s a few but remember, like, the the places where the recruiters will have to spend more money will typically be the big systems. So if you want to be in a big system, it is easy to find what but if you want something not so big, they’re a little bit harder to find.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 14:11
And that’s helpful just to have kind of a casting a wide net. And but yeah, there are some of those where you know that, Oh, someone, a senior colleague at the practice has kind of said that they’re going to retire at this point. That job may not be posted. But if one of their colleagues is your faculty mentor, they might have an inside scoop on on that and yeah, they might not get posted. So helpful.

Dr. Laura Hochman 14:39
Yeah, yeah, definitely put feelers out. If you know, if you’re an attending and you’re looking for new job that’s harder because you don’t want to tell people you’re leaving. But as a resident, it’s a lot easier because everyone knows you’re graduating.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 14:52
So as people think about applying for jobs and putting together a CV or cover letter, what are some of the must haves that you think people really need to focus on or that take the most time that people otherwise overlook. Yeah,

Dr. Laura Hochman 15:05
so a CV and a cover letter, these are the ways that you’re going to sell yourself before you get the interview. Because if you don’t get the interview, yeah, you don’t get the interview. So the starting with a CV, you want to make it as easy to read as possible. So keep it to about two to three pages, you want the most relevant thing at the top. So if you are interviewing for an academic role, where you’re doing research, you want the research to be at the top, if it is an outpatient clinical practice where research means absolutely nothing, you want research to be read at the bottom. So the most important thing is at the top, when they you still have their attention, the least important thing at the bottom, make it easy to read. So you know date indentation, date indentation with the most, most recent thing at the top. You don’t need to put in like under your residency, I did rotations in this and this and this and this, we all know what residency is. But you can put in there something like I was chair chair, you know, in better words, and that’s but I was chair of the committee that looked at our diabetes control and all of our patients or something like that. So, you know, if you want to put little bullet points under each point to really highlight something cool that you did, that would be great. When it comes to cover letters, not everybody includes cover letters. So if you do that, it will make you stand out. You want to individualize it to each job. So it is a way for you to say things that your resume would not say. So your cover letter wouldn’t say, doctors though, and so graduated summa cum laude from the school and completed these things and blah, blah, blah, that’s all in your resume. So you want it to be something like, you know, you want to address it to the person. So if you know who the person hiring, you would be you say, Dear Dr. stitching, or Dear Dr. hochland. If you don’t know, you can say to whom it may concern, so to whom it may concern, I was so excited to learn about this opportunity from the medical matchmaker. I don’t know wherever you heard about that the opportunity. And then you say something that appeals to you about the job. So it was really cool that okay, not those words, I was really excited to learn about this opportunity from the medical matchmaker, because I see that you are hiring someone with experience in obesity medicine, I happen to be boarded in this and I love it. And I would be so excited to talk to you more about how we can work together. I very much look forward to hearing back from you regards, Doctor zones, or something like that. So you want to use it to sell yourself, you want to show that you’ve put thought into it. And you’ve individual individualized it to each practice,

Dr. Ryan Stegink 18:03
it’s helpful to build that connection to show that you’ve done a little bit of research. And to kind of drive that forward to get to that point where you can have that interview. Exactly. As you look at an interview. What should you look for, both in questions to be prepared for and things that you should be asking this practice? Whatever the setting might be?

Dr. Laura Hochman 18:25
The biggest question to be prepared for is do you have any questions? The only wrong answer to that is no. That’s the only wrong answer. When you’re in an interview, you get really excited, you get really nervous, you have all sorts of feelings. And so it’s very easy to forget, even if you have imagined in your mind what those questions are to have it written down, have them prepared. And it’s really okay to say hey, I just is it okay, if I get my notes out? I wanted to make sure that I get all my questions answered. And that’s not only is that not a bad thing, it’s actually should be a benefit because it shows that you’ve prepared right. The questions that I like to include are questions about the culture of the practice, you want to ask about how they’re supported. And that means things like inbox, support, charting, support all of that, as well as what happens if you have a difficult patient? What happens if you feel that a patient needs to be fired for certain reasons, and I’ve had patients that have sorry, physician, physicians that weren’t able to fire their patients, hence why they’re calling me and these patients I mean, one of the one of the doctors I was working with her patient who she tried to fire twice and she was denied twice, got into his car and was going to drive into the clinic through the wall with his car and they still wouldn’t Get at her fire him. So these are things you want to know, you want to know how you’re supported, you want to know, if you have a voice you want to know, you know how much time charting you have? And then you really want to know what they don’t like about the practice. What do they like? What do they don’t like? You can’t just say, What do you not? Like? That’s a loaded question. But you can say, If you could change one thing, what what would that be?

Dr. Ryan Stegink 20:27
Slight difference, but it’s, it gets the same things out.

Dr. Laura Hochman 20:34
Exactly. And then, you know, with all of these questions, you want to listen to what they’re not saying even louder than what they are saying. So you know, listening to someone’s awkward silences and their tone of voice and all of that is so important.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 20:52
Yeah. And that’s just really helpful to think about just how communication goes when you think about, yeah, how are things going at your current place? And how it is? It’s all it’s all communication? And there are multiple parts. And it’s, I mean, ideally, these are in person interviews, because, I mean, I hear about people doing residency and fellowship interviews, and they’re all on Zoom, or some other video conferencing platform. And, yeah, the ability to say, I see how you kind of shy back when I just dug a little deeper there. And you may not call that out verbally, but you just make a mental note. So helpful things and even if it’s, yeah, that you’re able to go and talk with some of the other physicians, as you go to say tour, the tour the practice, I found that helpful in my own job searching to just get a feel for do you look happy? Are you running around frazzled? Is there communication between the physicians and the staff? So that all plays in?

Dr. Laura Hochman 22:09
Yeah, and if you can speak with those doctors, alone, that would be even better.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 22:15
Hmm. So till you make it through an interview, you have to wait, which, honestly, that was the biggest shift for me going from being matched, which has its own set of challenges and opportunities for anxiety. But it’s like, when it’s like, am I gonna get an offer? Am I not gonna get an offer? How long till they need an answer? Say you receive a contract? What What should doctors look for when they’re given that? And how should they think about contract review noncompetes, all that kind of stuff.

Dr. Laura Hochman 22:51
Oh, man, I could probably talk about that. For days and days and days that could be that could be like an entire day’s conference. So when it comes to contracts, the most important thing is to have a physician, contract lawyer look at it. So not your uncle who does a state law, not your best friend who’s a some other kind of contract attorney, not you know, your friend who does intellectual property law unless that’s the specific thing you want him to look at. But a lawyer that does physician contracts is so important, and I fully am aware that they’re expensive, but they are well worth the money, and you will probably earn back that and more. So that’s probably the most important thing. But you want to look at the contract. And keep in mind that you’re signing a contract for you have today, and you have the future. So when it comes to non competes, you know, I, I understand the request for a noncompete from an employer, because there’s a fear that they’re going to put all this time and money into you, and then you’re going to leave and they’re going to have lost hundreds of 1000s of dollars. So I do understand, but it needs to be reasonable and respectful. So you know, a lot of physicians that I’ve spoken to who’ve gotten stuck in these non competes. You know, when they signed it, they had thought, Well, I’m only moving to the city for this job. So if I were to leave no big deal, I’ll just leave, I don’t care what the non compete is. But then in that time period, they either get married, or they get divorced, and they have to deal with shared custody, or, you know, whatever reason, they don’t want to leave the city anymore, and now they’re stuck in this very onerous. noncompete. So you want to think about all you know, we spend so much time thinking through all the risks and benefits of everything we do. So let’s let’s apply that to our contracts as well. And Probably noncompetes is the biggest issue, there’s a lot to look for in contracts. And this is where the lawyer comes in. But probably the noncompete is where I see people getting the most stuck because then you can’t leave, and then you’re stuck. Or you can leave and you just have to not work or leave town for a couple of years and come back are, you know, there’s all sorts of things that you can do to try to get out of it. But yeah, you’re kind of stuck at that point.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 25:26
And that’s really helpful, I did get mine reviewed. There weren’t because I’m part of a larger system, there weren’t a whole lot of opportunities that they were willing to change things. But at least having it reviewed by someone who did physician contracts, they were able to explain to me what each of the parts of the contract meant, because it was like, This is what you’re legally binding yourself to for this period of time. And you should understand it. And I think what you said about the future self, so not only today, but if it’s on a every two or three year automatically renewing, unless you give whatever notice is specified in the contract, you’re still going to be bound to that if you’re there five years from now, 10 years from now. And so whether it’s Yeah, non competes intellectual property, like outside services agreement for other business activity, or if you did research and you got a patent, what does intellectual property look like? Those are all things to be considering or at least aware that what your contract says could affect that down the line?

Dr. Laura Hochman 26:41
Exactly. Yeah, that’s so important. And, you know, the intellectual property clause, you know, that’s one of the reasons I walked away from a contract. And at the time, I had even thought my future self would never start a business. But their intellectual property clause was so bad, that even as someone who had no interest in that, I still couldn’t sign it, in addition to some other things. But you know, I’m so glad that I didn’t, because like, here I am. And I’m here. Yeah. So I would have never imagined that I would do this. And, and the other thing that I want to say to everybody listening, and please spread the word, the reason they don’t negotiate with us in our contracts is because they know that we all sign them. So the the more of us that are willing to walk away, the less chance they have of just saying, I’m sorry, this is our standing contract. So when I walked away from my contract, because of the non compete and the intellectual property clause, and all these other things, they didn’t really care because they knew that the next doctor would sign it. And the other doctors in, you know, that I have spoken to had all said, Well, I didn’t have a choice assigned it. But we do have a choice, and we vote with our feet. So let’s do it.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 27:53
Let’s Absolutely and that’s one of the reasons why I love having other colleagues, and why I love even when our system brings colleagues together. It’s like not only for the social networking part, but just so that we can see how are you doing? How can we support one another? And what are those things that if someone said, What’s that one thing you’d want to change? It’s like we talked about it, and then you can support one another. Because if everyone comes together, then there’s a little bit more power and having a unified voice.

Dr. Laura Hochman 28:26
Exactly power numbers. And, you know, I’ve actually seen that there was a practice that was bought by a large system here where I live. And this is one of the systems that has a terrible contract, but they bought this practice of 11 physicians, and every single physician said we will not sign it if it has XY and Z. And these physicians have control over the contract because they know that that the hospital can’t survive without every single one of the physicians in the practice. And so if every single one of them sticks together, they’re good. As soon as one of them doesn’t. It all falls apart.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 29:05
Well, it’s like realizing where do you actually have the leverage if you bring that together? And even for smaller things negotiating about, I was split at multiple clinics and saying I want to be all at one clinic and making my case with data that the administrators cared about. So it’s like, how do you how do you speak their language?

Dr. Laura Hochman 29:28
Yeah. And I think we as physicians don’t realize how valuable we are. There are not enough physicians for all the jobs out there. So we are absolutely valuable. And so we shouldn’t be devaluing ourselves by just doing what we’re told to do.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 29:43
That’s great. So what would be as we wrap up, like something that people either overlook or one final thing that you want to leave people with as they think about their first job out of training, when They’re looking to make a change. Where would you? What would you tell them?

Dr. Laura Hochman 30:04
Yeah, I would say, you know, you’re not stuck. Even if you’re in one of these noncompetes, you’re not stuck, you have options. And if you’re absolutely miserable in a job, that doesn’t mean that you hate medicine, it may just mean that you’re in a toxic work environment, and it’s time for change. And, yes, it’s scary. But staying where you are, is not the solution just because it’s easier and less friction. So you know, the more of us that make these changes for ourselves, which is good for ourselves, and our families and everyone around us. But the more of us that do this, it’s also good for physicians as a whole. And so if enough of us start doing this, we’re going to see changes, we’re going to see that we’re back in power, and we can take care of patients and put patients first again, which you know, it’s so sad that that’s, that’s not just a given, like, it’s not about dollars and cents. So the more of us that stand up for ourselves, the more the more moves we can make for medicine in America

Dr. Ryan Stegink 31:12
huge. Well, in just thinking about, what would your future self, it’s like the pain that you’re going through now, if you stay what will that look like in five years? What will that mean for your patients for medicine as a whole? And so I think, as we stand up and band together, I think that that change will come?

Dr. Laura Hochman 31:30
Yeah, I think so. I don’t think it’s up to the I mean, I wish it was, but I don’t think that the our societies are doing enough, I think they have too many outside competing factors. But it’s up to each one of us to make a little change. You know, some of us can do huge things, like have a podcast or start a company. But you know, if all of us just make those little changes that together is huge, and makes a very, very big change. And just

Dr. Ryan Stegink 32:00
as I look at those that I’ve had on the podcast, you and others, those in my clinic, we each have different interests, and passions. And so yeah, as we each do our part, like we make that small change in different areas, and it really adds up. Yeah, exactly. If someone wants to learn more about your work or is interested in Happy Day Health and finding a physician, how would they reach out and contact you?

Dr. Laura Hochman 32:27
So my website is www dot Happy Day Health dot C Oh, it is not.com There’s a contact form on there where people can get in touch with me. And I’m on LinkedIn, Laura Hockman. MD I have a YouTube channel which is happy day health by Laura Hockman. MD where I try to post some helpful things and goodness I’m on Tik Tok, Instagram, Twitter, I’m animal.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 32:54
Thanks so much Dr. Hochman for joining me on the MedEdWell podcast and sharing such amazing insights.

Dr. Laura Hochman 33:00
Thank you so much for having me. This was great.

Dr. Ryan Stegink 33:01
For all of you listening, I want you to consider how you can apply what you’ve learned from Dr. Hochman in today’s discussion. And then please share this podcast with another doctor in your life and subscribe to the podcast. You can help change the culture of medicine and promote wellness for your patients, your colleagues and yourself. Thank you so much for all that you do, and to have a great day. And now for our important disclaimer. Dr. Ryan steady is a vaccine general pediatrician at the MedEdWell podcast is not a believer.

The MedEdWell podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered advice regarding medical or any other. Such a case consultation Certified Professional. Again, thanks for joining us on the MedEdWell podcast.